Chuck D Interview

Artrocker Welcome back to London, so have you read Artrocker in the past?

Chuck D: Yes, I'm a little different from a lot of the other cats, I've actually
been coming over here collecting the magazines for years

Artrocker So you come over here to read the magazines?

Chuck D: You've got to read something, I mean I don't drink and this is a drinking culture. People get drunk for no reason over here. I've never understood drinking culture period.

Artrocker Have you ever drunk?

Chuck D: No

Artrocker And that was a conscious decision when you were really young?

Chuck D: Yeah, it just tasted nasty.

“CAUGHT! NOW I’M IN COURT, COS I STOLE A BEAT”

Artrocker: On the new album you wanted sample AC/DC’s ‘Back In Black’ for your song ‘Black Is Back’. How did the negotiations for that work, was it simply a matter of you going to their lawyers and them naming a price?

Chuck D: We don’t have any money. So we went to them and explained that we’d use the sample reverentially. We also said that we’ve got a track record of working with rock and roll legends and so their audience won’t be saying “Those fucking rappers!”. It’s not like it’s P Diddy doing it, because when Diddy sampled that Police song I just thought it was a bad look.

Artrocker: So did you manage to clear the sample in the end?

Chuck D: No. But I hear it’s floating around on the internet…

Artrocker: On your first couple of albums you were able to use lots of samples. At the time did you think that lawyers would eventually wise up and start demanding money in order to let you use them?

Chuck D: It’s always just a matter of time before lawyers end up fucking up the party. If the party is jumping and then a bunch of lawyers arrive then you know that party is going to be whack after that. They’ll just be going up to girls and saying, “Hey, do you want some cocaine?”.
We knew it was just a matter of time.

Artrocker: So were you still able to use samples on “Fear Of A Black Planet”?

Chuck D: That whole record was based on samples. “It Takes A Nation of Millions...” had more real instruments than “Fear Of A Black Planet”. It was a second by second sound collage which burnt a piece of my brain out.

“I AINT CALLIN FOR NO ASSASSINATION, I’M JUST SAYIN WHO VOTED FOR THIS ASSHOLE OF THE NATION?”

Artrocker: Everybody seems to think that the 2008 US presidential election will be the most open in years as it’s the first time since 1928 that the incumbent president or the vice president won’t be running…

Chuck D: Everybody?

Artrocker: Well, perhaps everybody apart from you. You’ve previously said that you think (Democratic Presidential hopefuls) Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama wili cancel each other out and let the Republicans back in.

Chuck D: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards should team up in order to stave off this aggressive attack from the Republicans. I think the United States is too outdated and too swollen for one person to be the leader. I’ve just been traveling around Europe and have seen that smaller, more streamlined nations seem to work a lot better in this millennium. Big swollen entities like the United States have to find ways to adapt otherwise it’ll be a dinosaur type thing all over again.

Artrocker: Do you think whoever wins the presidency next time around will just spend their first term in office cleaning up the mess that’s around at the moment?

Chuck D: Definitely. That’s why I don’t think Barack Obama is an eligible candidate; I don’t think he could alleviate fighting off the tabloid pressures and still implement his own beliefs. He probably thinks he can, and he probably can if he’s allowed to. But I don’t think he’ll be allowed to.

Artrocker: Because of the right wing press?

Chuck D: Because of the press and all the kings men!

Artrocker: So if you had to choose, who would you want to be the next president?

Chuck D: As the system stands at the moment I’d want none of them. We’re going to end up with someone we dislike, who fits the middle of America and who doesn’t fit the rest of the world, like Bush.

We’ve got to watch out for Giuliani, McCain and all those guys. America can’t afford to have someone who’s not plugged into the rest of the world. From an international point of view the next four years are incredibly important. We need somebody who’s going to go to the rest of the world and say “Yeah, alright we fucked up but now we want to be back in the family again”.

Artrocker: Do you find people’s attitude to you as an American when you’re abroad have changed over the past few years?

Chuck D: It’s different for me because I’m an American “celebrity” who’s been known for being anti-American at points. But I will tell you this, today being a black American doesn’t mean as much as it once did to the rest of the world.

Once upon a time, people in struggles throughout the world aligned themselves with the black civil rights movement because they saw black people in America fighting against an oppressive system. But over the last 15 or 16 years that’s changed due to many cultural extravagances. For example people around the world seeing black faces partying in bubble baths while throwing money at the camera. Also the army shows pictures of black troopers and so they’re taking the race issue and blending it so it’s all part of the world’s image of “America”.

“ALL A FUCKING CRITIC DOES IS DRAW A LINE, CROSS A LINE AND DIS MY RHYME”

Artrocker: In your book, “Fight The Power” which was released in 1997, you said that you didn’t think that rap albums were accorded the same ‘classic’ status by critics as albums by artists such at Led Zeppelin, The Who and The Beatles. Do you think that’s changed in the past ten years?

Chuck D: It’s changed in the past ten years and it will change again in the next ten, it’s all part of a cycle. A person that really dug “Sgt.Pepper” is likely to be 70 years old now which is just crazy.

Artrocker: So you think that “It Takes A Nation of Millions…” and the early Run DMC albums will replace some of the older rock albums in “Greatest Ever Albums” lists?

Chuck D: Yeah and then they’ll be other albums coming along to replace them. I think “It Takes A Nation…” and “Fear…” will still be around. I kinda link them both together like “Rubber Soul” and “Revolver”. It was a very special time. It wasn’t so much our most creative time per se but we were young and it was a very exciting time in general with lots of changes in the way records were made and new methods of recording.

Artrocker: Do you enjoy being in Public Enemy now more than you did then? Before “Fear…” came out there was a lot of controversy surrounding the group and you seemed to be under a lot of pressure.

Chuck D: I always enjoyed being in the group but at one time I felt like I had to slow down. Around 1995 I felt I ran out of creative space in the live element and the recording element. Then I regrouped; I had no reason to leave. I just had to work out what I was going to do in the next ten years and I think I did.
Next year is just going to be a year of collaborations with lots of different offbeat things. If I do any Public Enemy promotion it will just be for the albums and DVDs we’ve released in the past four years because there’s been a slew of them. So I’ll probably spend the next two years going back over the past four years and working out ways to present them differently. That’s one of the key things about not being on a major label, you can choose when to place things and you can work each one of them again.

Artrocker: Do you ever miss the safety net of being backed by a major label?

Chuck D: At times you do but it’s not something I’d want to do back to back. I wouldn’t mind doing it at four-year intervals. And I deal with majors on side-projects, going in on a one off basis. But the majors stability ain’t what it used to be so maybe it doesn’t even make sense to say I’ll do it every four years.
Four or five years ago they were still battling downloads so I thought, “If you’re still battling downloads, how can I do a one off deal with you guys? You don’t know that the fuck you’re doing!” But now they’re starting to understand that they can take a one off record and spiral it into ringtones and downloads while understanding that they can’t have your second record. They’re beginning to get their act together.

“LONDON, ENGLAND, CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED!”

Chuck D: Are you talking about the British Invasion?

Artrocker: Well previously with rock, punk and dance music, Britain has taken music invented in America, put it’s on own spin on it and then sold it back to the US.

Chuck D: Rap originated in New York and generally New Yorkers don’t pay attention to anything coming from anywhere else apart from New York. The only thing that got close to infiltrating New York from a British standpoint was Soul II Soul but that was R&B which incorporated rappers. My advice to UK rappers would be “Fuck New York!”. Go to other places in the world and get big and then come to New York and then you’ll get support cos of your strength. New Yorkers always end supporting acts that came in from their own power.

Artrocker: Have you heard Dizzee Rascal?

Chuck D: I’ve been listening to him for the past three or four years, I think he’s sharp. I also like Sway and all the grime guys. The important thing for those guys is that they maintain their own identity.

Artrocker: There’s been a trend recently of bands playing entire albums live - GZA doing “Liquid Swords”, Sonic Youth doing “Daydream Nation” etc. Would you consider doing that with any of your back catalogue?

Chuck D: We’ve been asked to play “It Takes A Nation…” and that would only require us to learn couple of songs that we’ve never played live. It’s not actually that much more than we play in our current set.

Artrocker: So it’s definitely something which would appeal to you?

Chuck D: Yeah, if I could just get around to learning those songs!